Curse

Shyft the Pyro · Feb 07, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

Are we sure this still works? I tried it out on Isle of Nameless and did not gain back the health lost to Infuse.

I believe what you see is a result of the health being gained before Infuse makes you lose it again. If you spam Infuse with ER and enough enchantments on you, you end up never going below 1/2HP, and you can always refresh Aura of Restoration to heal yourself back to full.

And for the record, while I love ER + Infuse, it is the rough equivalent of Ursan for monking: all power, no finesse. Can't we just leave it at that?

faraaz · Feb 07, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Bah protting and infusing requires way more skill then running ursan/CoP/Whatever broken lolcrap.

Not if your spamming it on recharge and maintaning PS on the entire party, lol.

Parson Brown · Feb 07, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

I believe what you see is a result of the health being gained before Infuse makes you lose it again. If you spam Infuse with ER and enough enchantments on you, you end up never going below 1/2HP, and you can always refresh Aura of Restoration to heal yourself back to full.

And for the record, while I love ER + Infuse, it is the rough equivalent of Ursan for monking: all power, no finesse. Can't we just leave it at that?

Ah, this is true. The first cast dropped my health to 1/2, but then it never dropped much lower. I thought it was supposed to stay full...

Jeydra · Feb 11, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Monks would still be better as you would need this WoH or ZB it heal yourself up with those being elites.Monks also have thier divine favour bonus and they don't need the energy of an Ele.

This post is a powerful example of why people don't run ER healers more often ... they've never played it and yet think they know enough about Guild Wars to come to a conclusion. But don't complain. You and your ex-guildmates did the same thing in the first topic.

PS: In case you still don't see the obvious answer, I'll give it to you. Ether Renewal restores health every cast. With Aura of Restoration as well, you can easily heal over 100+ health with every spell. All it takes is 2-3 spells and you'll be at max HP after an Infuse, free to Infuse again. The self-restorative properties of ER, coupled with Spirit Bond + Protective Spirit, is so strong that as long as the enchantments don't get removed an ER Elementalist can tank almost anything in the game (eg. 5 HM Burning Spirits) without having a build that is specialized to tanking.

@traversc - I think I can conclude that the bar you gave is just another version of ER abuse. You gain strong party heals and 1/8 cast time for all your other skills at the expense of losing Spirit Bond and Life Attunement. You also have less room to fit in hex and condition removal. And in the end it's up to the area, team composition and personal preference to decide what you run. After all, if you have a HB Monk ally with Heal Party, why supplement his already strong party-heals when you can shore up his weakness in powerful prots?

AtomicMew · Feb 12, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

@traversc - I think I can conclude that the bar you gave is just another version of ER abuse. You gain strong party heals and 1/8 cast time for all your other skills at the expense of losing Spirit Bond and Life Attunement. You also have less room to fit in hex and condition removal. And in the end it's up to the area, team composition and personal preference to decide what you run. After all, if you have a HB Monk ally with Heal Party, why supplement his already strong party-heals when you can shore up his weakness in powerful prots?

Fair enough, though I'd rather leave hex/condi removal up to the monk, since they have DF (which makes straight up heals like infuse the better option on an ER bar).

Also, the only thing you need really need to ditch to run Heal Party is Spirit Bond - hardly an essential prot. Prot Spirit is enough, in which case, why not take Heal Party, since you can spam it all day long, shoring up the weaknesses you mentioned ER has.

Winterclaw · Feb 15, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I was just thinking:

[symbiosis] for overkill healing?

Age · Feb 15, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

This post is a powerful example of why people don't run ER healers more often ... they've never played it and yet think they know enough about Guild Wars to come to a conclusion. But don't complain. You and your ex-guildmates did the same thing in the first topic.

PS: In case you still don't see the obvious answer, I'll give it to you. Ether Renewal restores health every cast. With Aura of Restoration as well, you can easily heal over 100+ health with every spell. All it takes is 2-3 spells and you'll be at max HP after an Infuse, free to Infuse again. The self-restorative properties of ER, coupled with Spirit Bond + Protective Spirit, is so strong that as long as the enchantments don't get removed an ER Elementalist can tank almost anything in the game (eg. 5 HM Burning Spirits) without having a build that is specialized to tanking.

Why use infuse in pve in first place as there is no need to?You are speading your points to thin if you have them in healing and protection.Who make better hybrids Monks not Eles.

Snow Bunny · Feb 15, 2009, 11:27 PM // 23:27

A lot of you are missing a critical point -

with Infuse, you can powerheal everything so you don't need to prot.

Carry on.

Jeydra · Feb 16, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Why use infuse in pve in first place as there is no need to?You are speading your points to thin if you have them in healing and protection.Who make better hybrids Monks not Eles.

Thought I'll give you the benefit of doubt and explain this a bit more.

Of course you need Infuse. You don't need Infuse the skill, but you need something to push red bars up. Reversal of Fortune may be godly, but you try Monking with only that as your 'heal' and you will die. The other thing about Infuse is that you're not spreading your points. Infuse is one of those skills which is effective at 0 Healing (although when I've played ER, it's typically at 5 Healing Prayers). The only serious thing that having higher Healing Prayers will do is when you're Infusing immediately after another Infuse when you've not had the time to put your health back up. Not very major, anyone who has played the build before will agree. High spec in Healing only matters if you're going to spam Heal Party, when you can still have 11 points Healing 8 points Protection and carry Prot Spirit, which is another of those skills you can use without heavy point investment.

Call the bar what you want, but see it in action before you critique it, OK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Also, the only thing you need really need to ditch to run Heal Party is Spirit Bond - hardly an essential prot. Prot Spirit is enough, in which case, why not take Heal Party, since you can spam it all day long, shoring up the weaknesses you mentioned ER has.

Well Life Attunement + Healer's Boon + Heal Party owns, it's like casting Heal Other on everyone. And Spirit Bond is great - especially in HM many monsters hit above 60 damage on casters, and with Spirit Bond they won't even start taking damage ... it also has 2-second cooldown compared to the 5-second of Prot Spirit. You can prot a lot better with Spirit Bond.

Maybe you play with different Monks from me. When I play ER, I'm usually with a HB Monk whose only prot (if he even has one) is Prot Spirit. That's why I usually don't find it necessary to have Heal Party.

@above - in the harder areas you still need to Prot, even Infuse has a cast time and recharge and you can't Infuse everyone ...

Carinae · Feb 16, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Are we necessarily talking about player ER healers? Because I've been running hero E/Rt and E/Mo healers exclusively for the past 6+ months. They're pretty juicy, better than N/Rt IMHO.

And yes, on a hero bar, you just want serious red-bars-go-up. Heroes don't Prot worth shit, unless you micro them and I'm too lazy to do that except in cases where I must.

Age · Feb 17, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Thought I'll give you the benefit of doubt and explain this a bit more.

Of course you need Infuse. You don't need Infuse the skill, but you need something to push red bars up. Reversal of Fortune may be godly, but you try Monking with only that as your 'heal' and you will die. The other thing about Infuse is that you're not spreading your points. Infuse is one of those skills which is effective at 0 Healing (although when I've played ER, it's typically at 5 Healing Prayers). The only serious thing that having higher Healing Prayers will do is when you're Infusing immediately after another Infuse when you've not had the time to put your health back up. Not very major, anyone who has played the build before will agree. High spec in Healing only matters if you're going to spam Heal Party, when you can still have 11 points Healing 8 points Protection and carry Prot Spirit, which is another of those skills you can use without heavy point investment.

Call the bar what you want, but see it in action before you critique it, OK?

...

You only use 5 in heal that's not good enough to use infuse.You put higher points in healing to get the most out of it not to spam heal party.I am takling about this from monks perspective not an Els.It is still better for Monk to do the infusing as they can heal up faster and I do have Ele as well.I wouldn't even think of using just one skill for 5 at healing prayers.Why would I use RoF and I won't die if I only use it as it will be negating the damage recieved.Then you have Shield of Absorption as well.Those in pve want Eles do help in damaging or using wards but mostly damaging.

deluxe · Feb 17, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You only use 5 in heal that's not good enough to use infuse.

Why not? Even at 0 spec [[infuse health] is a pretty huge heal.

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 17, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Here is the build on wiki. I put 2 videos on it.

Jeydra · Feb 17, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You only use 5 in heal that's not good enough to use infuse.You put higher points in healing to get the most out of it not to spam heal party.I am takling about this from monks perspective not an Els.It is still better for Monk to do the infusing as they can heal up faster and I do have Ele as well.I wouldn't even think of using just one skill for 5 at healing prayers.Why would I use RoF and I won't die if I only use it as it will be negating the damage recieved.Then you have Shield of Absorption as well.Those in pve want Eles do help in damaging or using wards but mostly damaging.

Last time I do this ...

1. Infuse at 0 spec is a pretty huge heal (around 300 health).
2. You don't have to heal yourself. ER does it for you.
3. Since when did Monks bring Infuse in PvE?

@Zodiac Meteor - sorry to say this but your build is bad, even by ER's broken standards. I wrote why above. But then PvX is broken with regards to ER builds anyway, the better bars get low ratings and the not-so-good ones get great ...

Age · Feb 18, 2009, 08:02 AM // 08:02

^Monks can do it with 0 in healing as well and can heal themselves back with 0.I would like to see Eles do the same with 0 in energy storage.When Eles use infuse health in pve?

maxxfury · Feb 18, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

^Monks can do it with 0 in healing as well and can heal themselves back with 0.I would like to see Eles do the same with 0 in energy storage.When Eles use infuse health in pve?

Elem's use infuse in pve now because they auto heal the health sac after casting it and its basically free cast...

Face the fact, ER elems can pump MASSIVE heal numbers quickly and repeatedly with tiny recharge, flood the party with HP and SPAM heavy prots with no energy worries.

Been a monk primary. at times i feel a little jealous

but cant deny ER elem "monks" got some serious balls!

Age · Feb 19, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

The last word on this I hope is that Monks can do this with infuse then heal up with WoH although they don't need infuse as WoH is far better in PvE than any other heal along with DKiss and Patient Spirit.It is always best to prevent spikes using PS.

Jeydra · Feb 19, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Monk Infuse = 10 energy + 5 energy to WoH back up.
Elementalist Infuse = 0 energy + 0 energy to heal back up. Actually so long as they have 3 enchantments or more on themselves (easily accomplished - Ether Renewal, Aura of Restoration and Protective Spirit / Mindbender) then the 'cost' of Infuse is -2 energy, and Elementalists actually gain energy by Infusing.

Ether Renewal ftw.

If you are still unconvinced, take a look at the video Zodiac_Meteor posted in the first page. It's an inferior build, but hey, it's Ether Renewal. Which Monk build can spam Infuse like that?

Snow Bunny · Feb 19, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

The last word on this I hope is that Monks can do this with infuse then heal up with WoH although they don't need infuse as WoH is far better in PvE than any other heal along with DKiss and Patient Spirit.It is always best to prevent spikes using PS.

With Ether Renewal, elementalists can heal up automatically every time they use Infuse, and can use Infuse as much as they want.

In other words, it's better.

AtomicMew · Feb 20, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Well Life Attunement + Healer's Boon + Heal Party owns, it's like casting Heal Other on everyone. And Spirit Bond is great - especially in HM many monsters hit above 60 damage on casters, and with Spirit Bond they won't even start taking damage ... it also has 2-second cooldown compared to the 5-second of Prot Spirit. You can prot a lot better with Spirit Bond.

Maybe you play with different Monks from me. When I play ER, I'm usually with a HB Monk whose only prot (if he even has one) is Prot Spirit. That's why I usually don't find it necessary to have Heal Party.

@above - in the harder areas you still need to Prot, even Infuse has a cast time and recharge and you can't Infuse everyone ...

Well, life attunement is a maintained enchantment so you can't keep it on everyone.

For general play, ER can outspam heal party vs. HB. But in specific cases such as VSF the HB monk spams heal party under BiP. In that case, I agree, the ER has no place. But for general play, I'd say the usefulness of HP spam outweighs the opportunity cost. So I guess were both partially right. It depends on the team and the area. For more organized teams in tougher areas, HP is probably not so useful on ER.